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Curtis Yarvin & Counterpoints | Russia VS Ukraine
Break The Rules Stream on the current conflict + My post-show thoughts.
My latest “Russia VS Ukraine” Break The Rules stream brought back two all-stars together for the 2nd time: The Neoreaction Godfather Curtis Yarvin and Communitarian military vet ex-cop Counterpoints (not to be confused with Contrapoints though I can see how easy it is to mistake the two given their near identical appearance).
After their previous intellectual encounter debating dictatorship, the latest meeting between Curtis and Counterpoints was characterized by an even higher level of energy and enthusiasm.
One particular high energy moment of note was when Counterpoints “countered Curtis’s point” of Ukraine's future under Western protection as a bug-eating, technocratic dystopia (around the 30 minute mark).
Following this in the classic Yarvin style, Curtis brought up many interesting historical references to illustrate his current skepticism of Western Liberalism.
They include Western interventions he believes played a big role in igniting the Armenian Genocide, and England’s liberation of Spanish colonies to further its own trading interests under the Monroe Doctrine.
The latter example Curtis sees in a relatively positive light, as he described in a recent Grey Mirror article:
“It was good statesmanship because, though an extremely aggressive policy bordering on an act of war against Spain, it was good (in at least the medium term) for both England and Spanish America. The former colonies, whose trade had suffered for centuries under mercantilist restrictions, boomed when connected to the new global economy. Nor did English merchants mind the business.”
For Curtis “the tragedy of 21st-century internationalism is that it is not even predatory.”
He sees the current crop of Western leaders as woke idealists ready to flip the world upside down so that gender theory can be taught in Afghanistan and Iraq… or in this case, at least Ukraine.
Personally, I lean more on Counterpoints’s view of a future Ukraine free from Putin's kleptocratic, cruel, & totalitarian dictatorship as well as the Woke Mind Virus.
The potential for this can be seen in proposals such as the revival of The Polish-Lithuanian Union but with Poland and Ukraine (I guess Lithuania can come too).
With four centuries of common history between Poland and Ukraine, this is twice as long as the 200 year stint with the Russian Bear. Plus, Poland’s current balance of tradition with liberal institutions is not far away from Ukraine’s, so this may serve as a guard against creeping leftism.
But all of this, while interesting to speculate on, is putting the cart before the horse. The horse in this case is whether Russia is stopped now or later.
The decision to stop or continue as soon as Russia theoretically acquires Ukraine is not even in Putin’s hands, despite his own admission multiple times of wanting to revive the borders of the old Russian Empire.
In the end, it rests with the demands of the Russian masses who become dangerous to Putin’s regime when reflecting on their domestic problems, but tend to forgive all when a new territory is acquired.
While there is much more to say about this, go watch the stream and comment with your thoughts below!
A big thank you to Curtis Yarvin and Counterpoints for joining and looking forward to more of these discussions.